1 00:00:09,110 --> 00:00:05,990 [Music] 2 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:09,120 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:22,070 --> 00:00:11,920 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:24,900 --> 00:00:22,080 [Music] 5 00:00:30,630 --> 00:00:24,910 yes it's a skeptic zone podcast episode 6 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:30,640 number 537 for the 3rd of February 2019 7 00:00:34,950 --> 00:00:32,250 which it Saunders here with you from 8 00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:34,960 Sydney Australia with the cicadas 9 00:00:42,510 --> 00:00:39,190 buzzing - they buzz - they chirp out the 10 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:42,520 window the Sun beating down the humidity 11 00:00:47,910 --> 00:00:45,430 climbing and my head a muddle with jet 12 00:00:51,630 --> 00:00:47,920 lag back home once again well for the 13 00:00:55,110 --> 00:00:51,640 short term anyway just flew in ah less 14 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:55,120 than 48 hours ago 36 hours ago maybe as 15 00:00:59,009 --> 00:00:57,250 a result this week's episode of the 16 00:01:00,750 --> 00:00:59,019 skeptic zone is a little truncated I 17 00:01:02,670 --> 00:01:00,760 hope you understand I hope you 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:02,680 understand it's sometimes difficult to 19 00:01:07,430 --> 00:01:04,690 put everything together when there are 20 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:07,440 other things going on especially 21 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:10,240 long-distance travel nevertheless I hope 22 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:12,729 an entertaining show for you we're going 23 00:01:16,890 --> 00:01:14,590 to be interviewing Rob Palmer the 24 00:01:19,350 --> 00:01:16,900 well-known skeptic you might not know of 25 00:01:21,930 --> 00:01:19,360 him you might not be that well-known to 26 00:01:24,660 --> 00:01:21,940 you he's relatively new on the scene I 27 00:01:27,209 --> 00:01:24,670 met Rob some years ago not many in Las 28 00:01:27,899 --> 00:01:27,219 Vegas and he now writes for skeptical 29 00:01:30,660 --> 00:01:27,909 inquirer 30 00:01:33,770 --> 00:01:30,670 Rob also works closely of susan gerbic 31 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:33,780 from guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia 32 00:01:38,749 --> 00:01:36,460 also from the pages of the skeptic 33 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:38,759 magazine a report I wrote way back in 34 00:01:46,620 --> 00:01:42,369 2005 about homeopathy and tumbling 35 00:01:50,429 --> 00:01:46,630 busting uncovering some very bad advice 36 00:01:52,709 --> 00:01:50,439 given out by homeopaths in Sydney and to 37 00:01:55,649 --> 00:01:52,719 mark the one-year anniversary of the 38 00:01:57,899 --> 00:01:55,659 death of our dear friend and much mr. 39 00:01:59,429 --> 00:01:57,909 Barry Williams the former president and 40 00:02:02,370 --> 00:01:59,439 former editor of the skeptic magazine 41 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:02,380 I'm going to run an interview from the 42 00:02:08,340 --> 00:02:05,710 archives way back in 2002 when Barry 43 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:08,350 Williams was interviewed on ABC radio 44 00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:11,170 here in Australia and as listeners know 45 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:14,140 we have the award every year now the 46 00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:15,730 Barry Williams award known as the 47 00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:17,350 wallaby and this is for sceptical 48 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:19,750 journalism yes we still miss Barry he 49 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:21,730 was a huge influence on skeptics in 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:24,550 Australia so I hope you enjoy hearing 51 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:27,370 Barry from way back in 2002 talking 52 00:02:32,619 --> 00:02:29,890 about the sceptics a big thank you to my 53 00:02:34,869 --> 00:02:32,629 new patreon since last week 54 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:34,879 I'm very touched and pleased to have 55 00:02:41,199 --> 00:02:37,730 some more people come on board with $5 a 56 00:02:43,059 --> 00:02:41,209 month which all goes to help a lot to 57 00:02:45,489 --> 00:02:43,069 those people who contributed a bit more 58 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:45,499 lately I'm back in Australia now so I 59 00:02:49,390 --> 00:02:47,450 can get together your goodies parcel 60 00:02:52,209 --> 00:02:49,400 that will be coming out to you this week 61 00:02:54,190 --> 00:02:52,219 and somebody picked me up on something I 62 00:02:56,709 --> 00:02:54,200 said last week if you recall I was 63 00:02:59,530 --> 00:02:56,719 wandering around the California Academy 64 00:03:03,789 --> 00:02:59,540 of Sciences and I said I think I said 65 00:03:08,349 --> 00:03:03,799 it's hard to underestimate how the value 66 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:08,359 of these places I meant to say it's hard 67 00:03:12,459 --> 00:03:10,370 to overestimate the value of these 68 00:03:16,059 --> 00:03:12,469 places I've got my estimation completely 69 00:03:18,490 --> 00:03:16,069 wrong I think thanks to those people who 70 00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:18,500 pick me up on that stage and at the end 71 00:03:23,349 --> 00:03:20,480 of the show for more announcements from 72 00:03:25,569 --> 00:03:23,359 me but for now it's time for me to run 73 00:03:27,729 --> 00:03:25,579 downstairs Pat the cats again who are 74 00:03:31,659 --> 00:03:27,739 very happy to see me after well six 75 00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:31,669 weeks away open the fridge I'll open the 76 00:03:36,580 --> 00:03:34,849 open the cupboard and have some Vegemite 77 00:03:37,690 --> 00:03:36,590 toast while I do that I hope you enjoy 78 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:37,700 the skepticism 79 00:03:59,030 --> 00:03:56,090 [Music] 80 00:03:59,569 --> 00:03:59,040 and joining me now all the way from New 81 00:04:02,089 --> 00:03:59,579 Jersey 82 00:04:03,410 --> 00:04:02,099 it's the well-known skeptic well known 83 00:04:06,259 --> 00:04:03,420 well we'll get to that in a minute 84 00:04:08,509 --> 00:04:06,269 Rob Palmer hello Rob hello Richard a 85 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:08,519 pleasure to talk to you again now we 86 00:04:15,099 --> 00:04:11,730 first met I think it's icon or was it 87 00:04:17,870 --> 00:04:15,109 attempt some years ago and I think I 88 00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:17,880 boldly went up and put a microphone in 89 00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:19,979 your face well we met a little bit 90 00:04:24,260 --> 00:04:22,139 earlier than you sticking the microphone 91 00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:24,270 in my face you might not have remembered 92 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:25,680 because it was in a bar and some alcohol 93 00:04:29,510 --> 00:04:27,570 was involved it was in the lobby bar at 94 00:04:30,980 --> 00:04:29,520 the Excalibur I think that was the 95 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:30,990 Wednesday when we were all checking in 96 00:04:33,950 --> 00:04:32,490 and I met you right there so actually 97 00:04:35,990 --> 00:04:33,960 the first time I met any skeptic 98 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:36,000 including Susan garvik whose team I'm on 99 00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:38,310 and other people who had come to join us 100 00:04:43,999 --> 00:04:40,800 I met you and Bob novella and other 101 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:44,009 fairly skeptical famous people and I was 102 00:04:47,749 --> 00:04:45,870 quite blown away and yeah we hung out a 103 00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:47,759 little bit and then I think it was the 104 00:04:53,089 --> 00:04:50,460 next day after Susan's presentation that 105 00:04:54,529 --> 00:04:53,099 you caught me off guard in the hallway 106 00:04:56,089 --> 00:04:54,539 and stuck the microphone in my face and 107 00:05:00,020 --> 00:04:56,099 I got interviewed for the very first 108 00:05:04,850 --> 00:05:00,030 time on a sceptical subject well and now 109 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:04,860 I noticed that you're writing the 110 00:05:08,990 --> 00:05:06,510 skeptical Inquirer 111 00:05:11,930 --> 00:05:09,000 under the moniker of the well-known 112 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:11,940 skeptic this has been quite rapid can 113 00:05:16,850 --> 00:05:14,430 you give me a brief overview of from 114 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:16,860 that moment when I first stuck a 115 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:19,110 microphone in your face till now what 116 00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:21,770 you've been up to to reach these 117 00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:25,889 wonderful heights of skepticism yeah I 118 00:05:29,779 --> 00:05:27,990 don't know about Heights but it has been 119 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:29,789 a while right and it's still going on 120 00:05:33,879 --> 00:05:31,889 and I would have never expected it then 121 00:05:37,939 --> 00:05:33,889 yeah actually just going back a few 122 00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:37,949 earlier years that was 2017 when that 123 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:40,590 saikhan happened that I met you a few 124 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:41,970 years older than that I didn't even know 125 00:05:46,670 --> 00:05:43,590 there was a skeptical movement frankly 126 00:05:49,370 --> 00:05:46,680 um I was a skeptic my whole life but I 127 00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:49,380 first heard a podcast called the 128 00:05:52,909 --> 00:05:50,940 skeptics guide to the universe which I'm 129 00:05:56,149 --> 00:05:52,919 sure all your listeners know about and 130 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:56,159 that was about 2012 and then I started 131 00:05:59,480 --> 00:05:57,690 going oh this whole thing is cool does 132 00:06:00,439 --> 00:05:59,490 actually is a skeptical movement here 133 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:00,449 and I started listening to other 134 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:02,130 podcasts and yours was one of the other 135 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:03,930 ones that I found probably the second 136 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:06,060 one and I really got into it listen to 137 00:06:09,420 --> 00:06:07,210 all of them every way 138 00:06:11,970 --> 00:06:09,430 and on one episode susan gerbic was 139 00:06:13,650 --> 00:06:11,980 being interviewed and that's how i found 140 00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:13,660 about the gorilla skeptics and that's 141 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:15,670 what led me to go to saikhan and meet 142 00:06:21,030 --> 00:06:17,380 you and the other good folks there and 143 00:06:23,070 --> 00:06:21,040 that was quite fascinating as far as a 144 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:23,080 well-known skeptic thing I met the 145 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:25,330 novellas there we actually sat at the 146 00:06:29,750 --> 00:06:26,830 same table at a luncheon and I got to 147 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:29,760 know Jay and Bob and Steve and Evan and 148 00:06:35,250 --> 00:06:32,740 that was really cool and then I sent - 149 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:35,260 no who's that noisy and Jay loves that 150 00:06:40,710 --> 00:06:38,440 segment and Jay for some reason when he 151 00:06:42,390 --> 00:06:40,720 introduced the segment instead of just 152 00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:42,400 saying the name of the person Rob Palmer 153 00:06:48,060 --> 00:06:44,260 sent it in said and Rob's a well-known 154 00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:48,070 skeptic and I I became like that was a 155 00:06:52,650 --> 00:06:50,080 joke to my friends like how the hell are 156 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:52,660 you well known as and and really was odd 157 00:06:56,610 --> 00:06:55,120 and I I didn't understand why Jay said 158 00:06:59,580 --> 00:06:56,620 it but it was the coolest freaking thing 159 00:07:01,260 --> 00:06:59,590 I just couldn't believe it so you know 160 00:07:02,670 --> 00:07:01,270 fast forward some months I'll tell you 161 00:07:04,530 --> 00:07:02,680 about that but when I got the offer to 162 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:04,540 Rifa skeptical inquirer and I needed a 163 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:06,160 column name how could I not go with that 164 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:08,290 yeah that sounds good to me 165 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:10,330 now Susan good that go chorus plays a 166 00:07:15,780 --> 00:07:14,260 big part in your skeptical activities 167 00:07:17,190 --> 00:07:15,790 over the last few years she's a dear 168 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:17,200 friend of the skeptic zone and of course 169 00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:18,670 actually I had the pleasure of seeing 170 00:07:25,140 --> 00:07:21,160 Susan only about four weeks ago here in 171 00:07:25,980 --> 00:07:25,150 San Francisco and she and you I 172 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:25,990 understand 173 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:27,970 well you've got some projects or you 174 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:31,090 helped on certain various projects yeah 175 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:32,950 so besides the guerrilla skeptics which 176 00:07:39,090 --> 00:07:34,930 of course is my big thing 177 00:07:41,510 --> 00:07:39,100 Susan is known as the the vamp the Greve 178 00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:41,520 Vampire Slayer I guess I would say she 179 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:44,260 does psychic stings and I was involved 180 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:47,380 with one of those and she's going to be 181 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:49,570 writing an article about that and you'll 182 00:07:53,580 --> 00:07:51,010 learn the details of that shortly 183 00:07:55,530 --> 00:07:53,590 oh it's something to look forward to now 184 00:07:57,390 --> 00:07:55,540 tell me more about your work with Susan 185 00:07:59,190 --> 00:07:57,400 with guerrilla skepticism and how 186 00:08:01,020 --> 00:07:59,200 important that's been to you yeah that's 187 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:01,030 quite amazing I mean I used to be a kind 188 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:03,070 of a couch potato skeptic and I'd watch 189 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:06,070 these you know horrible shows that just 190 00:08:09,630 --> 00:08:07,690 had pseudoscience nonsense all on 191 00:08:11,490 --> 00:08:09,640 television or or my friends would talk 192 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:11,500 to me about it and I'd argue with them 193 00:08:16,020 --> 00:08:13,750 you'd argue on you know common threads 194 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:16,030 on YouTube or Facebook and no one would 195 00:08:18,930 --> 00:08:17,260 ever change their mind 196 00:08:21,270 --> 00:08:18,940 and then I heard about this great way 197 00:08:22,890 --> 00:08:21,280 that somebody who wants to do something 198 00:08:24,990 --> 00:08:22,900 but doesn't really have any particular 199 00:08:28,050 --> 00:08:25,000 skillset as an investigator could help 200 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:28,060 spread the word to the public not 201 00:08:33,270 --> 00:08:30,130 skeptics per se but people looking for 202 00:08:36,659 --> 00:08:33,280 information so Wikipedia as Susan you 203 00:08:38,850 --> 00:08:36,669 know preaches is the like number one 204 00:08:43,530 --> 00:08:38,860 source of information in the world it's 205 00:08:45,930 --> 00:08:43,540 the fourth largest web site that's hit 206 00:08:48,030 --> 00:08:45,940 in the English language only behind I 207 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:48,040 think it's YouTube and Facebook that's 208 00:08:51,450 --> 00:08:49,480 sort of a thing but it's the only one 209 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:51,460 with actual encyclopedic information 210 00:08:57,420 --> 00:08:54,430 it's an encyclopedia so what our team 211 00:08:58,920 --> 00:08:57,430 does is we take away pseudoscience we 212 00:09:01,560 --> 00:08:58,930 take away the nonsense and we add 213 00:09:03,930 --> 00:09:01,570 science we add skepticism to articles 214 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:03,940 that need it we write brand new articles 215 00:09:09,450 --> 00:09:06,580 if it's necessary for our skeptical 216 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:09,460 spokespeople we write it for different 217 00:09:12,690 --> 00:09:11,410 concepts like we write them maybe I 218 00:09:15,150 --> 00:09:12,700 think we actually did this icon 219 00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:15,160 Wikipedia article that's sort of a thing 220 00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:17,980 and we make all sorts all sorts of small 221 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:20,700 improvements to many many articles and 222 00:09:25,530 --> 00:09:23,260 the great thing about this is like 223 00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:25,540 anyone can do it from you know their 224 00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:27,760 laptop and you make an impact that's 225 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:30,280 quite frankly unbelievable I've been 226 00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:32,290 doing this for a couple years and if you 227 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:34,480 look at the page views that I have this 228 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:36,130 is the time as the pages have been 229 00:09:40,110 --> 00:09:38,530 accessed just the major articles I've 230 00:09:41,310 --> 00:09:40,120 written not little tiny changes I make 231 00:09:44,490 --> 00:09:41,320 because we don't count those but we do 232 00:09:46,020 --> 00:09:44,500 count the big pages it's it's axe it's 233 00:09:47,910 --> 00:09:46,030 astounding that that somebody who was 234 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:47,920 sitting on a couch a few years ago with 235 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:50,140 no hope of doing anything it's like a 236 00:09:56,430 --> 00:09:52,750 million just about a million point five 237 00:09:58,100 --> 00:09:56,440 right now that's just those 1718 238 00:10:00,540 --> 00:09:58,110 articles that I've worked extensively 239 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:00,550 that so many people have read them it's 240 00:10:04,620 --> 00:10:02,290 and right now it's ratcheting up at 241 00:10:06,690 --> 00:10:04,630 about 55,000 people every month read 242 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:06,700 those articles the whole team is 243 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:09,370 something like 38 million so far it's 244 00:10:14,540 --> 00:10:11,650 it's quite an astounding concept that 245 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:14,550 someone with no real skill set at 246 00:10:19,890 --> 00:10:17,140 investigative journalism or anything can 247 00:10:22,350 --> 00:10:19,900 do this once you're trained by a Susan 248 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:22,360 garvik and join our team you can do this 249 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:24,010 and make that kind of an impact it's 250 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:26,710 astounding I agree and it's why I'm 251 00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:29,710 happy to promote guerrilla skepticism on 252 00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:30,940 Wikipedia because I know that 253 00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:33,670 good that organizations doing I've seen 254 00:10:39,210 --> 00:10:37,360 talks by Susan outlining in detail what 255 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:39,220 good it's doing so congratulations on 256 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:41,290 that and Richard I have to thank you 257 00:10:46,770 --> 00:10:43,690 Richard my god dear of our group of a 258 00:10:47,790 --> 00:10:46,780 little bitty group of 144 people 10% or 259 00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:47,800 Australian's Wow 260 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:49,120 and that's not a cook that's not a 261 00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:51,160 coincidence and hey I'm in the group 262 00:10:54,810 --> 00:10:53,590 because of you you know because I listen 263 00:10:56,940 --> 00:10:54,820 to the skeptics on all the way from 264 00:10:59,520 --> 00:10:56,950 America oh there you go that's it that's 265 00:11:01,140 --> 00:10:59,530 very good to know but now let's let's 266 00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:01,150 look at the fact that you're writing for 267 00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:02,380 skeptical inquirer 268 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:04,660 did somebody approached you how did that 269 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:06,130 come about yeah that's one of the most 270 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:09,550 bizarre stories in my lifetime well so 271 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:11,170 skeptical inquirer was actually the 272 00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:13,750 magazine that turned me into a skeptic 273 00:11:19,380 --> 00:11:16,750 by the way I spoke at Psych on 2018 just 274 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:19,390 this last year and that was another like 275 00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:20,290 event that I would have never 276 00:11:23,420 --> 00:11:22,390 anticipated and when I spoke about was 277 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:23,430 the gorilla skeptics 278 00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:26,470 it was a very cool chance to be able to 279 00:11:31,470 --> 00:11:28,000 do that in front of the you know the 280 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:31,480 whole group of skeptics but one of the 281 00:11:36,060 --> 00:11:34,330 things I mentioned there is that this 282 00:11:37,650 --> 00:11:36,070 skeptical Inquirer magazine is what 283 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:37,660 turned me into a skeptic when I was a 284 00:11:40,830 --> 00:11:39,490 young teenager and now I'm writing for 285 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:40,840 them I mean who you know who'd have 286 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:42,310 thought that would have happened I mean 287 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:44,050 frankly I'm not a young pup and that 288 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:45,850 it's still around it's quite amazing but 289 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:47,830 that I got actually a paid job writing 290 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,320 for that magazine is quite astounding so 291 00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:52,240 the way it happened is I wrote you 292 00:11:58,020 --> 00:11:55,480 you're involved again here I I wrote you 293 00:12:00,630 --> 00:11:58,030 because I heard you guys talking you 294 00:12:01,950 --> 00:12:00,640 were talking to a skeptical activist 295 00:12:05,310 --> 00:12:01,960 from Europe I don't remember the 296 00:12:07,710 --> 00:12:05,320 gentleman's name the topic was the lack 297 00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:07,720 of skeptical outreach in the skeptical 298 00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:12,190 community you recall that not instantly 299 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:15,790 not off the top of my head after 536 300 00:12:21,180 --> 00:12:18,730 episodes it's hysterical every interview 301 00:12:23,730 --> 00:12:21,190 but no this is interesting carry on so I 302 00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:23,740 wrote you and said hey I know you know 303 00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:25,660 about guerrilla skeptics how did you not 304 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:27,880 interject well one skeptical outreach 305 00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:30,010 path is guerrilla skeptics so we got to 306 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:31,660 the end of your podcast that didn't come 307 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:32,950 up and I had to write you about it 308 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:34,930 basically saying oh why didn't you bring 309 00:12:38,010 --> 00:12:36,880 that up and you thought enough about it 310 00:12:40,110 --> 00:12:38,020 to read it on the air and that was 311 00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:40,120 fantastic but I put a lot of time into 312 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:41,680 writing that letter to you because I 313 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:44,210 wanted to get my thoughts you know actor 314 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:46,970 and once I had done that I realized this 315 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:49,130 is almost an article here I maybe put 316 00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:51,170 another hour into it and then I got it 317 00:12:55,270 --> 00:12:53,780 published not unscoped acquired directly 318 00:12:57,490 --> 00:12:55,280 there's a local group which I was 319 00:12:59,380 --> 00:12:57,500 already scheduled to do a talk to about 320 00:13:01,510 --> 00:12:59,390 gorilla skeptics and they said fantastic 321 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:01,520 we'll publish it so this was the 322 00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:03,140 Philadelphia Association for critical 323 00:13:07,270 --> 00:13:04,460 thinking which I believe you spoke at 324 00:13:09,070 --> 00:13:07,280 many years ago I could have yeah in 325 00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:09,080 Philadelphia many groups around yeah 326 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:12,320 yeah they have an archive list and I 327 00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:13,850 think I saw your name on there it was 328 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:16,670 quite amazing and so I that was one of 329 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:18,410 the first presentations I got to do and 330 00:13:21,730 --> 00:13:20,210 and it was because they published my 331 00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:21,740 article which was based on what you read 332 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:24,380 so that was cool and then I thought hmm 333 00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:26,240 you know why not try to go all the way 334 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:29,600 with this I talked to Susan Susan is an 335 00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:31,250 author for skeptical Inquirer and she 336 00:13:36,010 --> 00:13:33,380 said yeah sure send it off to bury car I 337 00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:36,020 did and before I knew it without any 338 00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:37,790 interface back and forth there came out 339 00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:40,100 on the web I was astounded it's it's 340 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:42,980 it's a wonderful story Rob and folks 341 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:46,730 I'll link to Rob's page on the show 342 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:48,170 notes for this week's episode and you 343 00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:50,810 can look and you can read Rob's articles 344 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:53,360 as published in skeptical Inquirer or 345 00:13:57,370 --> 00:13:55,730 Rob congratulations again it's it's 346 00:14:00,210 --> 00:13:57,380 wonderful to know that somebody who 347 00:14:02,650 --> 00:14:00,220 listened to the skeptic zone went on to 348 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:02,660 to really start to make make a 349 00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:04,610 difference and I think that's that's 350 00:14:08,890 --> 00:14:07,100 something to be very proud of thank you 351 00:14:10,330 --> 00:14:08,900 thank you so much Richard and thanks 352 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:10,340 again for helping me get involved in all 353 00:14:27,699 --> 00:14:11,530 this 354 00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:27,709 [Music] 355 00:14:33,139 --> 00:14:31,230 hey Sam have you ever wondered what 356 00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:33,149 skeptics are up to in countries where 357 00:14:37,190 --> 00:14:35,100 English is not necessarily the first 358 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:37,200 language or are you interested to learn 359 00:14:41,329 --> 00:14:38,910 about some fascinating and sometimes 360 00:14:43,579 --> 00:14:41,339 very bizarre Europe related facts events 361 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:43,589 or people from history of skepticism or 362 00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:45,060 do you just want to know who's been 363 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:47,670 really wrong lately you can find out all 364 00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:50,430 about that and more on the award-winning 365 00:14:56,569 --> 00:14:53,940 show the ESP the European sceptics 366 00:15:00,050 --> 00:14:56,579 podcast so where can people find the 367 00:15:01,970 --> 00:15:00,060 show you can find it online at the ESP 368 00:15:04,819 --> 00:15:01,980 dot EU but you can also follow us on 369 00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:04,829 Twitter at es podcast and d'ascoyne you 370 00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:07,680 or like us on Facebook oh and you can 371 00:15:12,889 --> 00:15:09,630 contact the show by sending an email to 372 00:15:15,019 --> 00:15:12,899 info at the ESP dot EU if you want to 373 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:15,029 subscribe do a quick search for the 374 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:17,640 European sceptics podcast on SoundCloud 375 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:20,310 iTunes stitcher or whatever you get to 376 00:15:28,270 --> 00:15:23,010 your podcast the European skeptics 377 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:28,280 podcast the real ESP experience 378 00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:31,010 [Music] 379 00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:32,940 crazy 380 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:52,070 I don't know why you can't believe as 381 00:15:57,140 --> 00:15:54,630 part of the ongoing series of reports 382 00:16:00,020 --> 00:15:57,150 and interviews and reviews from the 383 00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:00,030 skeptic magazine going back over the 384 00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:01,830 years now this is the journal from 385 00:16:07,070 --> 00:16:04,800 Australian skeptic while allow me to 386 00:16:15,470 --> 00:16:07,080 read one of my own reports dating back 387 00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:15,480 to 2005 homeopathy exposed again no 388 00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:17,550 matter how many times it's knocked down 389 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:22,320 it still bounces back unfortunately and 390 00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:27,090 this can be found on page 58 of volume 391 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:30,060 25 number 2 of the skeptic magazine with 392 00:16:35,570 --> 00:16:32,910 links in this week's show notes and this 393 00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:35,580 report revolves around one of my earlier 394 00:16:40,940 --> 00:16:37,670 investigations into homeopathy 395 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:40,950 Australian skeptics has long regarded 396 00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:43,170 homeopathy as little more than outdated 397 00:16:50,930 --> 00:16:48,660 quackery a visit to ww-watch org will 398 00:16:54,740 --> 00:16:50,940 give you a comprehensive explanation of 399 00:16:57,170 --> 00:16:54,750 this so-called medicine in 2002 skeptics 400 00:16:59,900 --> 00:16:57,180 show Freeman exposed the fraudulent sale 401 00:17:03,560 --> 00:16:59,910 of fake vaccines for meningococcal 402 00:17:06,170 --> 00:17:03,570 disease hepatitis B and influenza these 403 00:17:08,660 --> 00:17:06,180 homeopathic vaccines were available via 404 00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:08,670 the internet or phone orders from gentle 405 00:17:13,190 --> 00:17:10,980 heal proprietary limited of seven hills 406 00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:13,200 New South Wales and Newton's pharmacy 407 00:17:19,940 --> 00:17:16,380 York Street Sydney Cheryl's actions led 408 00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:19,950 to a ban on the vaccines and gentle heal 409 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:24,270 went on to win the 2002 bent spoon award 410 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:25,770 now the bent spoon of course is the 411 00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:28,890 Australian skeptics annual award for the 412 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:30,840 most preposterous piece of paranormal or 413 00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:33,210 pseudo scientific people have things 414 00:17:39,290 --> 00:17:35,750 changed in the last three years 415 00:17:41,420 --> 00:17:39,300 remembering this was written in 2005 the 416 00:17:45,230 --> 00:17:41,430 Sydney launch of world homeopathy 417 00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:45,240 awareness week April 10 to the 16th took 418 00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:46,559 place at Circular 419 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:49,120 now circular key for international 420 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:51,610 people it's the area in Sydney which is 421 00:17:56,010 --> 00:17:53,290 famous for the Opera House and the 422 00:17:57,900 --> 00:17:56,020 Sydney Harbour Bridge having an interest 423 00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:57,910 in this topic I attended to see what was 424 00:18:03,210 --> 00:18:01,360 going on for information booths some 425 00:18:06,539 --> 00:18:03,220 live music a few people milling around 426 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:06,549 and not much else I was handed a flyer 427 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:09,910 about the wonders of homeopathy which 428 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:12,610 said in Part D do you know that 429 00:18:18,049 --> 00:18:15,130 homeopathy can achieve impossible cures 430 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:18,059 for example a boy cured from autism 431 00:18:23,850 --> 00:18:21,070 homeopathy can even work faster than 432 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:23,860 antibiotics homeopathy can treat viruses 433 00:18:28,830 --> 00:18:26,230 like measles flu and herpes 434 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:28,840 the only real information it contained 435 00:18:36,299 --> 00:18:31,870 was that the Australian homeopathic 436 00:18:39,299 --> 00:18:36,309 Association Inc aah a plan to have a 437 00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:39,309 booth at the forthcoming parents babies 438 00:18:42,930 --> 00:18:42,460 and children's expo at home Bush Olympic 439 00:18:45,150 --> 00:18:42,940 Park 440 00:18:48,659 --> 00:18:45,160 if these people think that homeopathy 441 00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:48,669 can cure autism which is absurd what 442 00:18:53,730 --> 00:18:50,740 would they be telling parents at this 443 00:18:56,159 --> 00:18:53,740 Expo I had my suspicions which were 444 00:18:59,250 --> 00:18:56,169 confirmed later that week when Peter 445 00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,260 Bowditch and I attended the Expo Peter 446 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:01,120 Bowditch of course a longtime skeptic 447 00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:05,049 famous for ratbags calm at the aah a 448 00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:08,350 booth we approached an attendant can you 449 00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:10,720 use homeopathy to vaccinate babies 450 00:19:15,630 --> 00:19:12,910 against polio mumps and other diseases 451 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:15,640 oh yes indeed homeopathy can vaccinate 452 00:19:20,299 --> 00:19:18,190 your baby against any disease and it's 453 00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:20,309 completely safe my fears were confirmed 454 00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:23,740 we move to another attendant we've just 455 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:26,110 been told that you can use homeopathy to 456 00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:29,530 vaccinate babies I never knew this her 457 00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:32,710 reply was instructive well we have to be 458 00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:34,660 careful what we say you know but yes 459 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:36,820 homeopathy is a far better way to 460 00:19:41,549 --> 00:19:39,130 vaccinate babies and is much safer than 461 00:19:45,090 --> 00:19:41,559 what the government is doing those 462 00:19:46,919 --> 00:19:45,100 vaccines actually cause diseases more 463 00:19:49,289 --> 00:19:46,929 conversation with the pair reinforce 464 00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,299 this view with further warnings about a 465 00:19:54,919 --> 00:19:51,760 global conspiracy by pharmaceutical 466 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:54,929 companies against alternative medicine 467 00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,690 letting the cat out of the bag 468 00:20:02,330 --> 00:19:59,760 representatives of the Australian home 469 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:02,340 Apothic Association Inc have publicly 470 00:20:06,410 --> 00:20:04,290 stated at the parents babies and 471 00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:06,420 children's expo that homeopathic 472 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:08,520 vaccines are a valid way to immunize 473 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:11,340 babies and that parents should not use 474 00:20:15,980 --> 00:20:13,980 conventional vaccines this is like 475 00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:15,990 saying that parents should take down 476 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:18,480 their pool fence and replace it with a 477 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:22,650 line on the ground drawn with chalk with 478 00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:24,150 the hall full of thousands of visitors 479 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:26,160 milling around over the three days of 480 00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:28,230 the expo we can only wonder how many 481 00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:30,660 parents were duped by this disgraceful 482 00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:34,020 advice from people posing as health care 483 00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:36,750 experts homeopaths were not the only 484 00:20:41,630 --> 00:20:39,270 exhibitors to give us cause for concern 485 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:41,640 entering the expo we were confronted 486 00:20:46,460 --> 00:20:43,710 with the alarming sight of babies and 487 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:46,470 toddlers undergoing chiropractic 488 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:48,930 adjustments this stand also had 489 00:20:53,030 --> 00:20:50,730 brochures recommending against 490 00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:53,040 vaccinations pointing out a supposed 491 00:20:58,340 --> 00:20:56,880 link to cut death when quizzed one of 492 00:21:01,490 --> 00:20:58,350 the chiropractors said she would 493 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:01,500 recommend homeopathic vaccinations over 494 00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:04,050 conventional ones during our visit we 495 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:06,390 resisted the temptation to take the 496 00:21:11,210 --> 00:21:08,820 homeopaths and chiropractors to task as 497 00:21:14,030 --> 00:21:11,220 this would have not proved productive on 498 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:14,040 the day it was more important for us to 499 00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:16,770 see firsthand what was going on and to 500 00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:18,950 give these people enough rope 501 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:21,300 however we made sure that 502 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:23,570 representatives of valid medical 503 00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:26,490 institutions also exhibiting at the expo 504 00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,430 were made aware of the actions of their 505 00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:32,400 fellow exhibitors the reps from the 506 00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:34,680 Children's Hospital at Westmead were 507 00:21:39,530 --> 00:21:37,500 particularly horrified also on the way 508 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:39,540 up Peter and I made our concerns known 509 00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:42,210 to the organizers of the Expo who seemed 510 00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:45,720 to be disturbed in our findings I must 511 00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:47,880 say that the Expo itself apart from the 512 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:51,120 quackery was a truly wonderful affair 513 00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:53,250 and I would recommend it to any parent 514 00:21:57,530 --> 00:21:55,470 there were certainly enough reps from 515 00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,540 valid medical institutions and other 516 00:22:02,090 --> 00:22:00,240 companies to make it worthwhile I have 517 00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,100 no reason to suppose that the 518 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:04,320 representatives of the homeopathic 519 00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:06,690 Association both of whom would probably 520 00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:08,220 regard themselves as qualified 521 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:10,740 homeopaths do not believe in the advice 522 00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:13,350 they were giving how else could they 523 00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,960 possibly defend their actions I suspect 524 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:18,240 they think there is nothing that cannot 525 00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:21,450 be prevented or cured by homeopathy to 526 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:23,820 them it is simply the best health care 527 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:26,580 system there is and nothing could 528 00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:29,250 convince them otherwise a real case of 529 00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:32,820 being totally closed-minded following 530 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:34,860 our exposure of the conduct of the 531 00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:37,010 Australian homeopathic Association Inc 532 00:22:41,630 --> 00:22:39,270 Australian skeptics issued a press 533 00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:41,640 release which resulted in a number of 534 00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:44,700 interviews on ABC radio stations and a 535 00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:48,780 warning to parents so far the aah a has 536 00:22:57,620 --> 00:22:55,470 made no comment on the matter so that 537 00:23:00,049 --> 00:22:57,630 report was from 14 years ago and of 538 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:00,059 course not much has changed really when 539 00:23:04,419 --> 00:23:02,250 we think of organisations in Australia 540 00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:04,429 like homeopathy Plus still advocating 541 00:23:11,419 --> 00:23:06,990 that homeopathy can cure just about 542 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:11,429 anything and not so long ago being taken 543 00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:13,890 to task in court over their claims about 544 00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:17,039 homeopathic vaccines in the coming weeks 545 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:18,600 I'll look for some more interesting 546 00:23:24,169 --> 00:23:21,210 reports and items and interviews 547 00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:24,179 covering the 30-plus almost 40 years now 548 00:23:48,289 --> 00:23:26,280 of the journal from Australian skeptics 549 00:23:49,970 --> 00:23:48,299 the skeptic upcoming events now here are 550 00:23:53,210 --> 00:23:49,980 some upcoming events in Australia the 551 00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:53,220 Canberra skeptics proudly presents fake 552 00:23:59,330 --> 00:23:56,880 news what it is out works and how to 553 00:24:04,850 --> 00:23:59,340 counter it now this will be on Tuesday 554 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:04,860 the 12th of February 20 1968 Vell : 555 00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:07,110 community services which is in Chandler 556 00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:09,750 Street Belconnen in the AC t the cost is 557 00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:12,750 free and the speaker is Jeff Malone in 558 00:24:18,049 --> 00:24:15,929 this presentation Jeff Malone provides a 559 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:18,059 critical account of the phenomenon of 560 00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:21,330 fake news and how the challenges it 561 00:24:27,649 --> 00:24:25,440 poses might be addressed on fake news 562 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:27,659 very topical in this day and age and 563 00:24:32,770 --> 00:24:31,290 dinner will follow the lecture for more 564 00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:32,780 information visit 565 00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:35,590 www.mptv.org/outdoorwisconsin 566 00:24:47,019 --> 00:24:44,149 and coming up in Sydney on the 7th of 567 00:24:50,029 --> 00:24:47,029 February we have Australian skeptic 568 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:50,039 skeptics in the pub this month the talk 569 00:24:55,890 --> 00:24:53,530 will be citizen science 570 00:24:57,660 --> 00:24:55,900 now this is from 6:00 p.m. in the 571 00:25:00,860 --> 00:24:57,670 Occidental hotel which is in New York 572 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:00,870 Street Sydney just near Wynyard station 573 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:03,340 again I certainly intend to be there 574 00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:05,710 myself to do some interviews citizen 575 00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:07,980 science it's got it all big data 576 00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:11,140 feelgood factor it's an antidote to fake 577 00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:12,940 news and it's making the world a better 578 00:25:17,940 --> 00:25:16,000 place so why is the scientific community 579 00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:17,950 still divided on whether it's worth 580 00:25:23,220 --> 00:25:21,160 engaging with citizen science come in 581 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:23,230 here Paul Fleming's from the Australian 582 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:26,170 Museum and Patrick Tuohey --get from the 583 00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:28,810 Office of environment and heritage put 584 00:25:34,860 --> 00:25:32,080 the case for why citizen science has so 585 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:34,870 much to offer and you can check out both 586 00:25:40,820 --> 00:25:37,510 these events by links in this week's 587 00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:40,830 show notes or by using the meetup 588 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:44,260 website and application just search for 589 00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:47,650 Australian skeptics or social skeptics 590 00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:48,790 camera 591 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:06,200 [Music] 592 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:08,250 barry williams from the australian 593 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:09,810 skeptics is speaking here with Newsradio 594 00:26:14,150 --> 00:26:12,270 science editor steel carry ila skeptics 595 00:26:15,770 --> 00:26:14,160 a journal quarterly Journal published by 596 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:15,780 the skeptic in which we cover the broad 597 00:26:18,830 --> 00:26:17,070 range of things were interested in 598 00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:18,840 paranormal and theater scientific claims 599 00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:20,790 that sort of stuff I bet you were really 600 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:21,960 interested a few weeks ago when the 601 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:23,730 latest one the Water Products came on 602 00:26:28,430 --> 00:26:26,490 the market oh yes in fact we spoke to 603 00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:28,440 some of your colleagues at on Media 604 00:26:32,450 --> 00:26:31,140 Watch on ABC TV about that and gave them 605 00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:32,460 some good information I hope I'm there 606 00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:34,500 but yeah we deliberately on Newsradio 607 00:26:37,670 --> 00:26:36,270 Scientology we'd totally avoided the 608 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:37,680 topic because there was no scientific 609 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:39,570 backing for anything claims being made 610 00:26:43,730 --> 00:26:41,310 and we sort of figure why given 611 00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:43,740 publicity yeah well precisely the 612 00:26:48,260 --> 00:26:45,390 correct attitude actually I mean the 613 00:26:50,330 --> 00:26:48,270 story got legs that I didn't deserve and 614 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:50,340 people saw a lots and lots of bottles of 615 00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:53,370 water I would share of GBF jbf effect I 616 00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:54,960 suspect does that worry you that the 617 00:27:00,320 --> 00:26:57,510 standard of Australian journalism is 618 00:27:02,690 --> 00:27:00,330 such that supposedly reputable sections 619 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:02,700 of the media will give stories like that 620 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:03,210 legs 621 00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:05,130 it absolutely upholds me as a matter of 622 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:07,140 fact of one of my great bait players is 623 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:09,330 the lowering standards in our media 624 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:11,700 journalists are properly skeptical of 625 00:27:15,650 --> 00:27:14,250 political claims and economic claims and 626 00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:15,660 things like that and I go along with a 627 00:27:20,270 --> 00:27:17,430 great deal of interest and and 628 00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:20,280 governments and large institutions can't 629 00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:21,600 get away with anything when it gets to 630 00:27:25,010 --> 00:27:23,820 something at scientific journalists sort 631 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:25,020 of throw their hands in the air and say 632 00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:26,490 I don't understand that sort of stuff 633 00:27:29,930 --> 00:27:28,200 and any sort of rubbish will get through 634 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:29,940 well it's something scientific it seems 635 00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:32,250 to be a short circuit in the brain this 636 00:27:35,030 --> 00:27:33,540 at all I wouldn't understand that it's 637 00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:35,040 too hard for me and they just publish 638 00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:37,440 anything the eyes glaze over and all of 639 00:27:40,460 --> 00:27:38,670 a sudden anyone who knows anything about 640 00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:40,470 science becomes what they term a boffin 641 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:42,420 indeed I love this thing with the 642 00:27:45,710 --> 00:27:44,250 planetary alignment which is happening 643 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:45,720 now it's not really in the limit but 644 00:27:49,910 --> 00:27:47,370 it's a lineup of planets almost in 645 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:49,920 alignment and the claims that you know 646 00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:51,510 all sorts of wonderful things are going 647 00:27:54,260 --> 00:27:53,100 to happen this time considering last 648 00:27:55,580 --> 00:27:54,270 time this happened it was all supposed 649 00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:55,590 to be doom and gloom this time 650 00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:56,910 everyone's gonna be really nice to each 651 00:28:00,980 --> 00:27:58,650 other yeah interesting thing about that 652 00:28:02,150 --> 00:28:00,990 planetary alignment actually I've just 653 00:28:03,740 --> 00:28:02,160 finished reading a book called bad 654 00:28:06,170 --> 00:28:03,750 astronomy looking into a lot of these 655 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:06,180 sort of claims and the closest alignment 656 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:06,930 of planets 657 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:10,250 in recorded history was in I think 1162 658 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:13,110 when the planets most of the planets 659 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:15,210 lined up and about a about a 10 degree 660 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:16,890 span of the sky and of course not 661 00:28:20,639 --> 00:28:18,850 nothing really startling happening 662 00:28:23,129 --> 00:28:20,649 sixty-two or nothing redacted to find 663 00:28:26,159 --> 00:28:23,139 out about and then of course there was 664 00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:26,169 one in nineteen sixties where the 665 00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,200 planets lined up to about 18 degrees 666 00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,880 that were supposed to call do cause doom 667 00:28:34,740 --> 00:28:32,080 and catastrophe and of course nothing 668 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:34,750 happened then of course last there was 669 00:28:41,610 --> 00:28:36,250 two years ago about this time two years 670 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:41,620 ago 2000 there was a 25 degree alignment 671 00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:42,970 so-called of the planets and that 672 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,500 included the Sun and everyone said 673 00:28:48,509 --> 00:28:46,240 that's it the world will come to an end 674 00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:48,519 earthquakes you know goddamn yeah there 675 00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:49,809 are gonna be here for quite some title 676 00:28:52,590 --> 00:28:51,129 wives and the polls we're going to 677 00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:52,600 switch and almost anything you can think 678 00:28:57,450 --> 00:28:55,750 of because absolutely zero happen as you 679 00:28:59,129 --> 00:28:57,460 would expect with the famous saying what 680 00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,139 I'm looking up my window Agassi for 681 00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:01,360 Carver amazing one of that name it 682 00:29:04,889 --> 00:29:02,830 doesn't mean anything but every time 683 00:29:08,999 --> 00:29:04,899 this happens the same sort of people 684 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:09,009 keep raising their heads and others keep 685 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:11,070 listening to them what does that say it 686 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:13,330 and well again if you get a lot of it 687 00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:15,129 gets back to the fact that most people 688 00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:16,870 don't have the faintest idea of anything 689 00:29:21,419 --> 00:29:19,480 to these about slants I mean if you 690 00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:21,429 understand even a small bit about of 691 00:29:26,820 --> 00:29:23,049 astronomy in astronomy is by far the 692 00:29:28,379 --> 00:29:26,830 most popular of the amateur Sciences you 693 00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:28,389 would know that you know the number of 694 00:29:31,529 --> 00:29:29,860 planets in the solar system and at any 695 00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:31,539 given minute and then they given day in 696 00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,740 any given year they all have to be 697 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:34,960 somewhere and they take of all sorts of 698 00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:36,610 configurations with each other as you 699 00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:39,039 would expect and but just because 700 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:41,080 suddenly go out of the script at night 701 00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:42,610 and you can see a number of them in the 702 00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:44,110 sky at once people start saying this 703 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:46,750 must be mysterious why do you watch the 704 00:29:50,610 --> 00:29:48,970 x-files no no you can't watch that sort 705 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:50,620 of thing you can't a sit down and enjoy 706 00:29:58,289 --> 00:29:54,370 it I it's not that I mean I have no 707 00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:58,299 moral objection to fantasy at all it's 708 00:30:01,769 --> 00:29:59,919 just enough I've always been a fan of 709 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:01,779 science fiction I like I like reading 710 00:30:05,549 --> 00:30:03,250 sponsoring you like Star Trek things 711 00:30:07,499 --> 00:30:05,559 like that you know just think that one 712 00:30:08,909 --> 00:30:07,509 should get a cameraman pointing out 713 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:08,919 isn't a director but it's like a lot of 714 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:11,320 the value of science fiction lives and 715 00:30:15,930 --> 00:30:13,210 exercising your own imagination if 716 00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:15,940 you're watching a movie version that 717 00:30:19,499 --> 00:30:16,960 you're relying on somebody else's 718 00:30:21,629 --> 00:30:19,509 imagination and it sort of destroys your 719 00:30:23,159 --> 00:30:21,639 illusions or dominance of course you've 720 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:23,169 got to admit that you know today's 721 00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:25,210 science fiction most likely will be 722 00:30:28,990 --> 00:30:26,860 tomorrow's science fact that's been the 723 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:29,000 that's been the real surfer Oh 724 00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:30,890 to a very large degree that's right the 725 00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,150 interesting thing about it is though 726 00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:34,880 that no matter how much we imagine the 727 00:30:37,930 --> 00:30:36,230 future is going to be different we're 728 00:30:39,310 --> 00:30:37,940 always far too conservative with our 729 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:39,320 imagining science fiction writers 730 00:30:43,930 --> 00:30:41,510 actually don't predict the future all 731 00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:43,940 that accurately because they love 732 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:45,500 thinking with today's brain about what 733 00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:47,450 tomorrow is going to be like and you 734 00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:49,580 know scientific and technological 735 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:51,679 changes have been much more rapid than 736 00:30:54,850 --> 00:30:53,210 actually if you trace it through science 737 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:54,860 fiction in reality they're much more 738 00:30:59,770 --> 00:30:57,530 rapid now the skeptics have a new CD at 739 00:31:01,810 --> 00:30:59,780 a cd-rom which goes back through the 740 00:31:04,659 --> 00:31:01,820 history of the publication tell me about 741 00:31:10,690 --> 00:31:04,669 it yeah we we've been publishing a 742 00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,700 magazine now for 22 years and we kept 743 00:31:14,350 --> 00:31:12,080 back issues because people are always 744 00:31:16,510 --> 00:31:14,360 interested things so we decided we'd and 745 00:31:18,970 --> 00:31:16,520 we had one of our members is on it we're 746 00:31:21,149 --> 00:31:18,980 bang on computer stuff and he said no 747 00:31:23,950 --> 00:31:21,159 problem we'll translate it to a CD I 748 00:31:25,210 --> 00:31:23,960 needed all the hard work and it was hard 749 00:31:27,789 --> 00:31:25,220 work we got a lot of it we didn't have 750 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:27,799 an electronic format so it's scanned it 751 00:31:31,539 --> 00:31:29,450 all and put it into a CD and there's 20 752 00:31:33,370 --> 00:31:31,549 years worth of our magazine it covers 753 00:31:36,299 --> 00:31:33,380 every issue that we've ever covered from 754 00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:36,309 alternative medicine creationism 755 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:38,990 pseudoscience of various kinds UFOs the 756 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:41,480 whole box and dice astrology those sort 757 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:44,510 of New Age beliefs and we put it all on 758 00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:46,730 a CD we a couple of books we published 759 00:31:50,770 --> 00:31:48,320 in the past or gone on there as well and 760 00:31:53,950 --> 00:31:50,780 people can get that method that CD from 761 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:53,960 us and on reams of implement more than 762 00:31:57,490 --> 00:31:56,090 4,000 pages worth of information they're 763 00:31:59,380 --> 00:31:57,500 a single topic a single story that 764 00:32:02,710 --> 00:31:59,390 stands out some of the the weird ones 765 00:32:04,810 --> 00:32:02,720 with health claims are but peculiar the 766 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:04,820 the group of Christian fundamentalists 767 00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:07,010 who insist the universe was built 6,000 768 00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:08,750 years ago and that they have scientific 769 00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,640 evidence for it's pretty weird I had a 770 00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:12,559 friend who was into all that he believed 771 00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:14,360 that I sort of told him all about how 772 00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:16,820 things will decay in time and how you 773 00:32:21,370 --> 00:32:19,400 can use carbon dating to prove things 774 00:32:24,010 --> 00:32:21,380 are older than six or seven thousand 775 00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:24,020 years and and no it's all made up he 776 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:26,120 said you can't convince some people of 777 00:32:29,620 --> 00:32:27,890 the scientific facts behind an issue 778 00:32:31,419 --> 00:32:29,630 they don't want to hear those sort of 779 00:32:33,070 --> 00:32:31,429 things and a lot of a lot of strange 780 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:33,080 beliefs have a pseudo religious 781 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:34,850 component that one is just a bit more 782 00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:37,490 blatantly religious but if they know the 783 00:32:40,270 --> 00:32:38,809 answers before they start asking the 784 00:32:41,529 --> 00:32:40,280 questions you see but any answer that 785 00:32:42,570 --> 00:32:41,539 comes up that doesn't match their 786 00:32:45,210 --> 00:32:42,580 prejudices or pretty 787 00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:45,220 positions is automatically described as 788 00:32:48,779 --> 00:32:47,320 being fallacious well that's not the way 789 00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,789 science works I mean science is my 790 00:32:53,220 --> 00:32:50,559 doodles are wrong predictions over the 791 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:53,230 years finest F but where you learn from 792 00:32:57,870 --> 00:32:55,090 your mistakes across our kids going head 793 00:32:59,610 --> 00:32:57,880 and progressing whereas things like 794 00:33:02,580 --> 00:32:59,620 religion and the stick with the same old 795 00:33:04,259 --> 00:33:02,590 tried-and-true barry williams on the 796 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:04,269 australian skeptics who is skeptical of 797 00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:06,730 everything except the limitations of 798 00:33:17,690 --> 00:33:07,440 science bed 799 00:33:23,580 --> 00:33:21,030 calling all skeptics or listeners the 800 00:33:25,950 --> 00:33:23,590 you live end or near Glasgow are already 801 00:33:28,620 --> 00:33:25,960 planning to visit sometime then you're 802 00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:28,630 in luck because Glasgow skeptics have 803 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:31,780 got your Monday nights sorted we are 804 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:33,370 committed to filling up every available 805 00:33:38,940 --> 00:33:35,890 Monday night talks on science and 806 00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:38,950 skepticism past speakers include Eugenie 807 00:33:43,530 --> 00:33:41,230 Scott Jerry Coyne make up Marshall Nate 808 00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:43,540 Phelps tormund Cecil from cognitive 809 00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:46,720 dissonance PZ Myers Richard Wiseman EC 810 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:48,880 drilling Noah Heath and Eli from the 811 00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:51,490 scathing atheist Simon Singh Rebecca 812 00:33:56,730 --> 00:33:53,830 Watson and a multitude of local 813 00:33:59,070 --> 00:33:56,740 academics and skeptics there's literally 814 00:34:01,410 --> 00:33:59,080 nothing better you can do on a Monday in 815 00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:01,420 Glasgow it doesn't involve taking your 816 00:34:06,390 --> 00:34:04,240 clothes off so come join us we've also 817 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:06,400 got a vibrant online community you can 818 00:34:10,919 --> 00:34:08,649 find us on Facebook Twitter and get 819 00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:10,929 involved with the discussion class go 820 00:34:16,870 --> 00:34:27,559 [Music] 821 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:30,089 thank you for listening to the skeptic 822 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:33,490 zone and a big shout-out to Zack - Zack 823 00:34:40,649 --> 00:34:37,089 who now likes to tell people what a 824 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:40,659 silly idea ear candling is because his 825 00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,290 mother told me a nice little bit of 826 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:46,720 feedback from from people who listen to 827 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:49,690 the skeptic zone yes ear candling is 828 00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:53,169 very stupid sack I am looking forward to 829 00:34:57,450 --> 00:34:55,780 catching up with friends at skeptics in 830 00:34:59,460 --> 00:34:57,460 the pub this week in Sydney as you heard 831 00:35:01,680 --> 00:34:59,470 a bit earlier on in the show hopefully 832 00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:01,690 may not will be there and will be 833 00:35:06,270 --> 00:35:03,880 running around doing interviews and a 834 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:06,280 big THANK YOU to Trish Han who last 835 00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:08,170 month that skeptics in the pub stood in 836 00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:10,540 for Maynard and I and did some 837 00:35:16,140 --> 00:35:14,470 interviews of her own Trish look out now 838 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:16,150 I know how good you are at interviewing 839 00:35:21,569 --> 00:35:19,210 don't be surprised if I ask you to do 840 00:35:23,099 --> 00:35:21,579 some more thank you very much to my good 841 00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:23,109 friend Lara Benham who you hear 842 00:35:27,089 --> 00:35:24,609 occasionally on the sceptic zone who 843 00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:27,099 looked after all my recording gear while 844 00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:30,880 I was away all bar a little bit of gear 845 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:33,910 I use on the road but all my good 846 00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:35,770 microphones she looked after Thank You 847 00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:37,990 Lara and while I'm in the thanking mood 848 00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:41,200 big thank you to my dear friend dr. 849 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:43,839 eugenie Scott in Berkeley who was so 850 00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:46,510 kind to me while I was visiting the area 851 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:49,000 but for this week this is Richard 852 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:50,970 Saunders signing off from hot and muggy 853 00:36:00,960 --> 00:35:57,970 Sydney Australia you've been listening 854 00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:00,970 to the skeptic zone podcast please visit 855 00:36:08,549 --> 00:36:05,500 our website at WWF Tech's on TV for show 856 00:36:12,049 --> 00:36:08,559 notes contacts and to access the back 857 00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:12,059 catalog of episodes going back to 2008 858 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:14,740 you can follow the skeptic zone podcast 859 00:36:20,309 --> 00:36:18,010 on Twitter at skeptic zone visit our 860 00:36:21,590 --> 00:36:20,319 Facebook page or leave a review on 861 00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:21,600 iTunes 862 00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:23,880 you can also support the sceptic zone 863 00:36:29,950 --> 00:36:27,240 via patreon or PayPal the sceptic zone 864 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:29,960 podcast is an independent production 865 00:36:34,460 --> 00:36:32,370 reviews and opinions expressed on the 866 00:36:36,830 --> 00:36:34,470 sceptic zone are not necessarily those 867 00:36:38,610 --> 00:36:36,840 of Australian skeptics or any other 868 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:38,620 skeptical organization 869 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:54,390 hello people who listen the 870 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:55,810 afterthoughts people who listen at the 871 00:37:00,660 --> 00:36:57,250 end of the show yes we can play the dice 872 00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:00,670 game again in fact hmm let me looking in 873 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:15,360 the cupboard behind me okay the classic 874 00:37:21,630 --> 00:37:18,970 six-sided die this week instead of the 875 00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:21,640 10 sided die and I have one here which 876 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:23,260 was a souvenir from the South Point 877 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:26,530 Casino from the days of Tam how about 878 00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:30,730 that it's a red sort of semi-transparent 879 00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:35,140 dye with a serial number one 992 if 880 00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:38,320 you're interested Las Vegas Nevada okay 881 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:40,380 so six sided here we go use your 882 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:44,050 mystical predicting power and see if you 883 00:37:49,590 --> 00:37:47,530 can predict the number to be shown on 884 00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:49,600 the top side of the die here we go 885 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:54,640 throwing now three first numbers see 886 00:38:05,850 --> 00:37:56,010 let's try it again 887 00:38:07,980 --> 00:38:05,860 here we go six and the last number fell 888 00:38:13,470 --> 00:38:07,990 off the table mm-hmm always does that